Thus far we have read four chapters of The Odyssey and we have encountered a number of characters. We've learned about the law of hospitality, about augury, the gods, etc. Based on the chapters we have read and the people we have met in The Odyssey, what other values and customs might you conclude were important to ancient Greek culture? Are there certain personality traits that are important? Are there particular practices that the Greeks seem to honor? Let's use this time and space to gain some cultural insight into the society from which this great epic poem came. In your response, please cite the passage or scene that lead you to the cultural conclusions you write about. Also, please be sure to write about a concept or principle that we have not discussed in class.
Your entry should be four to six sentences in length and you are encourage to engage your classmates in your written discussion, so please read and consider the thoughts of others.
I think feasts and prayers to the gods are a very important aspect of Ancient Greek Culture. For example when King Menaleus was trapped on the island, it was because he didn't pray to the gods before traveling, and therefore had to go all the way back to Egypt and pray before he could return home. I also think that in order to be successful in Ancient Greek, you had to have people skills. You could not just rely on the gods, you had to be able to make friends/allies, speak with confidence, and have clear judgement. Telemakhos and Odyesseus seem to portray all of these qualities very well.
ReplyDeleteAs we read the beginning of the Odyssey we see a theme of mind over body, cunning over strength. We especially see this theme when Telemakhos goes to Sparta to see Menelaus and Helen. Both Menelaus and Helen remember Odysseus as a true hero and provide evidence for their claim. Helen describes Odysseus' heroism when she talks about the time that Odysseus disguised himself as a beggar in order to infiltrate Troy. Menelaus adds that Odysseus was a hero when he used the trojan horse to sneak into Troy. Both these stories of heroism revolve around Odysseus' impressive trickery, not strength. Can anyone else think of any examples where we see the concept of mind over body in the Odyssey?
ReplyDeleteI think the law of hospitality is a very important portion of Ancient Greek Culture. Not only does it convey the Ancient Greeks' worship and respect for the gods, but it also shows how there is this level of kindness and grace in the Ancient Greek society. For instance, Nestor the king gives Telemakhos shelter and warmth as soon as he meets him. He knows that Telemakhos could possibly be the Greek god Zeus so out of both fear and respect he gives him affability. However, this law has an unfortunate way of being easily broken. We see this when suitors remain in Telemakhos' home while they have already stayed there for almost four years, clearly taking advantage of the law of hospitality.
ReplyDeleteI agree, respect of the gods seems to be a very important part of Greek Culture. The suitors, who break the law of hospitality, are attacked by eagles (representing Zeus) on page 23. This harsh sign of dissaproval from the king of gods makes it clear that those who don't follow the gods' rules will be punished. In addition, the incantation to the Muses on the first page shows Homer believed that praying to the gods would give him the inspiration to write The Odyssey. Their belief in gods must have strongly influenced the Ancient Greeks and the choices they made.
ReplyDeleteThis is a very good point. To us, the ancient greek religion is mythology. To the greeks, it was legitimate theology. Everyone believed in the gods (with some deviation but I can't expand on that) and the gods influenced their behavior and decisions, as Elyse mentioned. For example, they would treat their guests as if they were a god in disguise, like Ms. Devine told us. Everything is due to the gods. When anything, good or bad, happens, the gods willed it to happen. When Penelope asks why Telemakhos left her, Medon says "a god moved him". The greeks didn't only believe in the gods, they were such heavy influences in their lives that any occurrence was attributed to them.
DeleteMedon quote is on page 74, line 762 by the way
DeleteI think that an important theme from what we've read in the Odyssey is to always be a good person, respect others, and respect the gods. I know that sounds very basic and obvious, but based on what we have read so far, it seems to me that this theme is pretty important. In the story, the suitors all violate the Law of Hospitality, and by doing so, they are disrespecting their patient hosts, breaking a major law, and disrespecting Zeus all at the same time. This proves to be an issue, as Zeus sends two eagles to attack the men at the meeting. Also, Odysseus is mentioned quite a bit in the first four chapters, and each character has generally the same thing to say about him. He is clever, well-spoken, and kind. Everyone seems to like Odysseus because of these traits, and Telemakhos begins to gain allies for showing these same traits.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Sukriti. I believe that if you share similar traits with gods that they are more likely to get involved with your problems. For example, the grey-eyed goddess (Athena's epithet) shows favor towards Odysseus in the opening conversation between her and Zeus on page 3 and 4. Athena says, "But my own heart is broken for Odysseus, the master mind of war..." and, "O Majesty, Father of us all, if it now please the blissful gods that wise Odysseus reach his home again, let the Wayfinder, Hermes cross the sea to the island of Ogygia...and let the steadfast man depart for home." Athena also aids Telemakhos throughout all four books (divine intervention). Athena is known for being clear-headed, tactical, and wise, qualities displayed by both father and son. I can imagine how one's status would be ranked in the Greek culture. The bottom level is having no allies and no skills. The next level would be to have allies but no skills. Next, the ideal status is to have allies and valuable skills. Finally, the rare but best status is to have allies, valuable skills, and Godly support. It makes me wonder: if Telemakhos was in the same situation of distress with the aggressive suitors and his missing father but did not share qualities with Athena, would she have helped him at all? Would she have even acknowledged his situation? Or would she have just sent him less aid?
ReplyDeleteSo far in the Odyssey, disguise plays a quiet but crucial role not only for the needs of the gods, but for Telemachus and Odysseus as well. For the gods, disguise aids them when interacting with mortal beings; but for Telemachus or Odysseus, disguise is used for things entirely different. We first see Athena disguise herself as Mentes, and later Mentor, in order to persuade Telemachus to kick the suitors out of the house. Without this disguise, Athena would not have been able to convince Telemachus to go out in search of Odysseus. In Sparta, Menelaus and Helen tell the story of how Odysseus disguised himself as a beggar to infiltrate city walls, and how he stuffed his men inside a Trojan Horse in order to get past the gates of Troy. Not only does the topic of disguise relate back to the idea of wit over strength, but it can also fit into a broader idea of identity in general.
ReplyDeleteDuring ancient greek culture, I noticed that before feasting, the characters in the story pray to the gods and raise a glass of wine to honor them (Fitzgerald, 36). I agree with Jeremy, for hosts are very welcoming to their guests, and invite them into their house with open arms; even if they are strangers (Fitzgerald, 5). Telémakhos and other guests are very polite to their hosts, and speaks with generosity and sympathy (Fitzgerald, 6). This is partly because the law of hospitality enforces people to be kind, but kindness is also expressed from the guests’ hearts. (Fitzgerald, 6) I’ve noticed that the people of ancient Greece are very outgoing and express what they fell with honesty. (Fitzgerald, 7) When Athena was at Odysseus’s house, Athena was very honest to Telémakhos and told him everything he knew about Odysseus (Fitzgerald, 7).
ReplyDeleteIn the first four chapters of “The Odyssey,” there have been many values and customs that seem important to the ancient Greek culture. I think that valuing advise givers in very important for Telemokhos. Prince Telemokhos must learn to listen to people who give him advice. So far in the poem he has listened to Mentor, or Athena, about getting out of the castle and searching for his father Odysseus. Athena advises him to visit Nestor, a good friend of Odysseus, so that Telemokhos will not be alone on his journey for finding his long lost father. Once Telemokhos talked with Nestor, the prince had a very wealthy king as an ally. Athena, or mentor, knew that Telemokhos would need allies for his journey, so she sent him to wealthy friends of Odysseus, who have many men for an army. (pg. 9) Companionship, is also an attribute that I believe was important to Telemokhos in The Odyssey. This means that Telemokhos should befriend everyone that he can, so that he has allies. There are many values and customs that are important to the ancient Greeks.
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