Sunday, November 2, 2014
Odysseus' Stories...
During class on Friday, we had the beginning of a debate about the the fact that Odysseus told Euamaios various untrue stories about who he was in order to protect his identity. It's time to sound off about Odysseus and his stories. Is he just being strategic and cautious upon arriving home after so long or is he a no good, dirty, rotten liar? Please cite specific examples from the text to support your opinion.
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I don't really mind Odysseus' story telling. He has been doing a pretty good job at deceiving people and leading them away from his true identity and every time he succeeds at this he gets closer to being his actual self at home with his family. The one time he failed at concealing his identity, it proved to be a tremendous detriment in his journey to Ithaka (when he revealed his identity to the kyklops). The only problem I have with him telling phony stories to Euamaios about himself is how the dust is going to settle. When/if Odysseus goes back to his old life, has he thought about how he's going to tell the shepherd who he really is? Otherwise, I think maybe it's alright if Odysseus lies to the shepherd as long as it gets him a step closer to his old life and if he figures out a way to tell the shepherd the truth somewhere down the line.
ReplyDeleteThroughout The Odyssey, we begin to establish an idea of Odysseus as a liar. After reading book 15, my idea of Odysseus as a liar changed significantly. Now, I feel as though Odysseus is just being cautious in order to endure his return home. Since a goddess warned him to not reveal his true identity just yet, Odysseus is just obeying her when he lies to the swineherd. I think that Odysseus truly does want to tell the swineherd the truth, but he simply just can't.
ReplyDeleteI think that Odysseus is a liar. I would not go as far to say he is a "dirty rotten liar", but I would say he is a liar. He has lied to people to the Phaikians, the very people who took him in, gave him food and clothing, allowed him safety and gave him safe passage home. What would have happened if he had just told them he was Odysseus? And now, I understand a goddess told him that he needs to lie, but why? What is the reasoning behind this? Odysseus did not have to tell the 4 under-herdsman, and he could still be in disguise, but he owes the shepherd the truth. The shepherd speaks so highly of Odysseus, he still cares for his livestock as if it were his own, and he is truly loyal to Odysseus. Odysseus knows this, and he doesn't feel even the least bit of guilt about his actions? I understand there are circumstances that lying may be necessary, and the only way to escape. Odysseus certainly encounters those circumstances, for example when he is with Polyphemus and he lies about his identity. All in all, I would say Odysseus is a liar, but he is a bad person.
ReplyDeleteI think that the lies Odysseus tells Euamaios are elaborate (as usual), but overall for the good of Euamaios. He isn't manipulating the swineherd, or trying to take advantage of him, Odysseus is only concealing his true identity so that he can successfully carry out the plan that Athena devised. Loyal Euamaios misses Odysseus, and wishes he would return, but Odysseus revealing his true identity, especially while he appears so frail, will do nothing to solve this problem. Chances are, Euamaios won't believe that he is Odysseus, and will be offended that someone is trying to impersonate a man that he highly respects. In addition, the swineherd really seems to enjoy Odysseus' company, even though he appears a stranger. "Stay here with us here." he tells Odysseus, "No one is burdened by you, neither myself nor any of my hands" (pg. 278). In conclusion, Odysseus can make up quite elaborate lies, but the one he tells to Euamaios is for the greater good.
ReplyDeleteI don't think that Odysseus lying to keep his identity hidden was necessarily right or wrong. Even though he has a history of making up stories, he was just doing what Athena told him to do. Being that she is the Goddess of Wisdom, it would be unwise for Odysseus not to take her advice and listen to her. However, just because an Olympian Goddess tells you to do something, that doesn't necessarily make it the right thing to do. Odysseus was told to lie to keep his identity hidden, but this was at the expense of his most loyal servant, the swineherd. The swineherd dreadfully misses Odysseus, and just talking about him brings tears to his eyes. He doesn't believe that his master will return, when in fact he has been unknowingly conversing with him for quite some time. It wasn't Odysseus' fault that he had to stay disguised, and he wasn't necessarily doing anything right or wrong, but he was in fact doing what was best.
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ReplyDeleteOdysseus told many lies in Book 14 of The Odyssey, and even though he was told by Athena to pretend to be someone else, it was unlawful for Odysseus to lie to Eumaios. On page 253, Odysseus’s response is not accurate when the swineherd specifically asks who is and why he is here. Also, Eumaios talks about Odysseus in the third person to Odysseus himself, and does not even tell Eumaios that he is, in fact, Odysseus. For example, on page 252, he talks to Odysseus about how he longs for and cares for Odysseus. In this situation, I believe it was wrong for Odysseus to let Eumaios grieve about him when he could have made Eumaios’s day by revealing his true self. Odysseus should have disobeyed Athena’s orders for the sake of healing Eumaios’s heart and saving their friendship by being truly honest with one another. (Fitzgerald 243-244) I believe Odysseus should have done what he felt was right, because Odysseus wanted to tell the truth and Athena was the only soul who told him to lie.
ReplyDelete(Ideas from class and inspiration to make changes from previous comments and emphasize more about Odysseus being a liar)
I think that if Odysseus lying to Euamaios had been a one time thing I wouldn't be so bothered by his lying. I don't think in this situation I would consider it to be wrong if we hadn't seen multiple other instances of Odysseus lying to get something for himself. An example of this are, lying about being asleep when he over heard his crew talking. I believe we ignored this manipulation of his story because Odysseus was not toying with peoples emotions. When Odysseus hears Euamaios talk about how much he admired Odysseus and how much he misses him I think it was wrong to let Euamaios grieve while he was being taken advantage of. Another reason I think lying in this situation was wrong is that Athena has been continuously changing peoples views and actions in oder to help Odysseus. For example, helping Odysseus find the palace, the dream message she send to Nausikka, and he hand in getting Odysseus off Kylpso's island. Since Odysseus knows Athena has been looking out for him and goes out of her way to try and make his life easier I think that had he reviled himself she would have helped him out. These are the two main reasons that Odysseus' lying in chapter 14 upset me more than before.
ReplyDeleteBeing crafty, sly, and untruthful are defining characteristics of Odysseus. Without them, he would have been dead a long time ago. Lying is what has kept him alive up until this point, and he seems to form the lies so that they don't turn against him later. For me, it is not a surprise that he lies to Eumaios about who he is and what he's done. For Odysseus, this is one of his best defenses. In fact, throughout the Odyssey, he uses false words and wits to defend himself in critical danger more often than a sword. Also, Athena, the grey-eyed goddess, the goddess of WISDOM herself, told Odysseus to lie. You can't just disobey a goddess, and you know it must have been important for Odysseus to lie because the goddess of wisdom had to instruct our wise hero to be crafty which he already does well. Think of what would have happened if Odysseus had announced his arrival on Ithaka. The news would spread and the suitors would find out and prepare a plan to combat Odysseus. In The Odyssey, lying is the way to go.
ReplyDeleteI truly believe that Odysseus is just being protective of his identity and is not lying to Euamaios. He is being strategic and not telling Euamaios his true identity for fear of him bursting with joy and spreading it around Ithaca, and the suitors getting their hands on the information. Although that Odysseus is merely doing what Athena told him to do, there may well be at least a little strategic output in Odysseus' decisions in this chapter. I don't think that Odysseus is the kind of cruel man that would lie to his most loyal swineherd, and I believe that Odysseus wants to use Eumaios for future help involving the suitors....
ReplyDeleteWhen Odysseus tells his story to the swine herd, he tells a made up story. I don’t think that this lie makes Odysseus a no good dirty rotten liar, because if he were to tell the swine herd that he was Odysseus in a different form, the herder could go around town saying, “Odysseus is back.” This would ruin Odysseus’s plan to kill the suitors. There is a reason for the hero’s lies, therefore the lies should not be considered negative. Like Yasmeen said, Odysseus is one step closer to being back to his home with his loving life, and now grown child, so he must do everything Athena told him to do in order to succeed. I feel that we can’t take offence to Odysseus’s lying in chapter 14.
ReplyDeleteI don't think that Odysseus is being a bad person by lying the way he is. I don't think that lying makes him deceitful or evil in the way he is trying to get back home. Such as when Odysseus doesn't reveal his identity to Euamaios when he is in Ithaka. I think that Odysseus is protecting himself as well as Euamaios because if he told him then he would be giving his identity so someone who might reveal it and also if he lets him know then Euamaios could be in danger. I believe that Odysseus does have good intentions and just wants to get home to his family. Plus he was told multiple times by the gods to do specific tasks so that all would be well when he took back his home. Also, Athena praises him for his clever and cunning tactics when not revealing his identity to her when the met once more.
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